I'm planning a flight into Angel Fire, NM (KAXX). I will be coming
in from the south via Las Vegas (LVS) at 10000 feet. If it's IMC I
will land and Las Vegas and drive from there (the only IAP into kaxx is
"out of my reach"). But if it's CAVU, I will fly still at 10k,
up the valley and pass, visually into Angel Fire.

My question is this: Is there a way to fly this last leg and remain
under IFR? E.g. from 30 miles south of KAXX get a cruise clearance?
Contact Approach? VFR-on-top?

--
Thanks,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

On 26 Aug 2005 08:07:24 -0700, "John Clonts" > wrote:

>I'm planning a flight into Angel Fire, NM (KAXX). I will be coming
>in from the south via Las Vegas (LVS) at 10000 feet. If it's IMC I
>will land and Las Vegas and drive from there (the only IAP into kaxx is
>"out of my reach"). But if it's CAVU, I will fly still at 10k,
>up the valley and pass, visually into Angel Fire.
>
>My question is this: Is there a way to fly this last leg and remain
>under IFR? E.g. from 30 miles south of KAXX get a cruise clearance?
>Contact Approach? VFR-on-top?

By "out of my reach" do you mean you don't have an IFR GPS?

Just don't cancel your IFR until on the ground (or with landing assured and
VMC if you prefer).

I would think you could get a visual approach clearance once you have the
airport in sight.

I dunno about a cruise clearance -- if you're coming up from the south,
you'd be on a random route, and ATC would need radar coverage and
communications. I think they'd have comm, as there seems to be an RCO on
the ground at KAXX. Here in the NE, cruise clearances are exceedingly
rare, so I don't have much experience with them.
Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message
...
> On 26 Aug 2005 08:07:24 -0700, "John Clonts" > wrote:
>
>>I'm planning a flight into Angel Fire, NM (KAXX). I will be coming
>>in from the south via Las Vegas (LVS) at 10000 feet. If it's IMC I
>>will land and Las Vegas and drive from there (the only IAP into kaxx is
>>"out of my reach"). But if it's CAVU, I will fly still at 10k,
>>up the valley and pass, visually into Angel Fire.
>>
>>My question is this: Is there a way to fly this last leg and remain
>>under IFR? E.g. from 30 miles south of KAXX get a cruise clearance?
>>Contact Approach? VFR-on-top?
>
> By "out of my reach" do you mean you don't have an IFR GPS?
>
> Just don't cancel your IFR until on the ground (or with landing assured
> and
> VMC if you prefer).
>
> I would think you could get a visual approach clearance once you have the
> airport in sight.
>
> I dunno about a cruise clearance -- if you're coming up from the south,
> you'd be on a random route, and ATC would need radar coverage and
> communications. I think they'd have comm, as there seems to be an RCO on
> the ground at KAXX. Here in the NE, cruise clearances are exceedingly
> rare, so I don't have much experience with them.
> Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

It's been a few years but I flew there a couple of times. Albuquerque
Center will probably lose radar on you shortly after you start down from
10,000 in that area due to the terrain. If you want to maintain IFR, you'll
probably be asked to make a position report (upon reaching the airport!)
so... if it's VMC, that would be a cue to cancel IFR right then and there
and proceed VFR. And if it's not, you said you'd be driving anyway. Or...
you might consider Taos (SKX) as your IFR alternate. It's closer than LSV
and has VOR & NDB approaches.

The likelihood of IMC in that area is rare this time of year unless there's
a thunderstorm on the way or in progress. In that case, land elsewhere!
But you'll probably end up on visual navigation over the highway through the
valley - right to the airport (see the Denver sectional). If you find
yourself over Eagle Nest Lake, you've gone too far!

Ron,

Thanks for your reply, see below...

"Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message ...
> On 26 Aug 2005 08:07:24 -0700, "John Clonts" > wrote:
>
>>I'm planning a flight into Angel Fire, NM (KAXX). I will be coming
>>in from the south via Las Vegas (LVS) at 10000 feet. If it's IMC I
>>will land and Las Vegas and drive from there (the only IAP into kaxx is
>>"out of my reach"). But if it's CAVU, I will fly still at 10k,
>>up the valley and pass, visually into Angel Fire.
>>
>>My question is this: Is there a way to fly this last leg and remain
>>under IFR? E.g. from 30 miles south of KAXX get a cruise clearance?
>>Contact Approach? VFR-on-top?
>
> By "out of my reach" do you mean you don't have an IFR GPS?
>

No, I have IFR GPS, I just can't manage the 420 feet/nm climb to 13000 on
the missed approach :)

> Just don't cancel your IFR until on the ground (or with landing assured and
> VMC if you prefer).
>
> I would think you could get a visual approach clearance once you have the
> airport in sight.
>

In my scenario with me at 10,000 the terrain will encroaching into my 2000 feet
within 4nm MIA quite some time before I have the airport in sight. So I'm wondering
whether I could get a contact approach or cruise clearance prior to that.

> I dunno about a cruise clearance -- if you're coming up from the south,
> you'd be on a random route, and ATC would need radar coverage and
> communications. I think they'd have comm, as there seems to be an RCO on
> the ground at KAXX. Here in the NE, cruise clearances are exceedingly
> rare, so I don't have much experience with them.

That's what I had heard, and then I got one on my second IFR flight after getting
my instrument rating!
--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

Dunno what the MEA is in that area, but remember that a cruise clearance
only allows you to operate between your assigned altitude and the MEA, not
below the MEA unless you have the field in sight and can descend VFR.

Having said that, I would be amazed if you have any trouble getting in there
VFR.

Bob Gardner

"John Clonts" > wrote in message
...
> Ron,
>
> Thanks for your reply, see below...
>
> "Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 26 Aug 2005 08:07:24 -0700, "John Clonts" > wrote:
>>
>>>I'm planning a flight into Angel Fire, NM (KAXX). I will be coming
>>>in from the south via Las Vegas (LVS) at 10000 feet. If it's IMC I
>>>will land and Las Vegas and drive from there (the only IAP into kaxx is
>>>"out of my reach"). But if it's CAVU, I will fly still at 10k,
>>>up the valley and pass, visually into Angel Fire.
>>>
>>>My question is this: Is there a way to fly this last leg and remain
>>>under IFR? E.g. from 30 miles south of KAXX get a cruise clearance?
>>>Contact Approach? VFR-on-top?
>>
>> By "out of my reach" do you mean you don't have an IFR GPS?
>>
>
> No, I have IFR GPS, I just can't manage the 420 feet/nm climb to 13000 on
> the missed approach :)
>
>> Just don't cancel your IFR until on the ground (or with landing assured
>> and
>> VMC if you prefer).
>>
>> I would think you could get a visual approach clearance once you have the
>> airport in sight.
>>
>
> In my scenario with me at 10,000 the terrain will encroaching into my 2000
> feet
> within 4nm MIA quite some time before I have the airport in sight. So I'm
> wondering
> whether I could get a contact approach or cruise clearance prior to that.
>
>> I dunno about a cruise clearance -- if you're coming up from the south,
>> you'd be on a random route, and ATC would need radar coverage and
>> communications. I think they'd have comm, as there seems to be an RCO on
>> the ground at KAXX. Here in the NE, cruise clearances are exceedingly
>> rare, so I don't have much experience with them.
>
> That's what I had heard, and then I got one on my second IFR flight after
> getting
> my instrument rating!
> --
> Cheers,
> John Clonts
> Temple, Texas
> N7NZ
>

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 02:07:32 GMT, "John Clonts" >
wrote:

>Ron,
>

>No, I have IFR GPS, I just can't manage the 420 feet/nm climb to 13000 on
>the missed approach :)

I don't use NACO charts, which is all I have available for that airport,
but I don't see any minimum climb gradient for the missed approach. (I do
see a climb gradient for the the departure procedure which is what you
stated, but that does not apply to the missed approach procedure, which
starts at the AER and at about 1600' AGL). Am I missing something on the
chart or have you confused the ODP requirements with the MAP requirements?



>
>> Just don't cancel your IFR until on the ground (or with landing assured and
>> VMC if you prefer).
>>
>> I would think you could get a visual approach clearance once you have the
>> airport in sight.
>>
>
>In my scenario with me at 10,000 the terrain will encroaching into my 2000 feet
>within 4nm MIA quite some time before I have the airport in sight. So I'm wondering
>whether I could get a contact approach or cruise clearance prior to that.

A contact approach requires weather reporting at the destination airport.
A cruise clearance would not allow you to descend below the MEA/MIA until
you have the airport in sight.



Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Ron Rosenfeld" > wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 02:07:32 GMT, "John Clonts" >
> wrote:
>
>>Ron,
>>
>
>>No, I have IFR GPS, I just can't manage the 420 feet/nm climb to 13000 on
>>the missed approach :)
>
> I don't use NACO charts, which is all I have available for that airport,
> but I don't see any minimum climb gradient for the missed approach. (I do
> see a climb gradient for the the departure procedure which is what you
> stated, but that does not apply to the missed approach procedure, which
> starts at the AER and at about 1600' AGL). Am I missing something on the
> chart or have you confused the ODP requirements with the MAP requirements?
>
>

Oh, you're right! Now I remember, the thing that put me off about the missed
approach was the climb to 14000 and hold (no O2).

>
>>
>>> Just don't cancel your IFR until on the ground (or with landing assured and
>>> VMC if you prefer).
>>>
>>> I would think you could get a visual approach clearance once you have the
>>> airport in sight.
>>>
>>
>>In my scenario with me at 10,000 the terrain will encroaching into my 2000 feet
>>within 4nm MIA quite some time before I have the airport in sight. So I'm wondering
>>whether I could get a contact approach or cruise clearance prior to that.
>
> A contact approach requires weather reporting at the destination airport.
> A cruise clearance would not allow you to descend below the MEA/MIA until
> you have the airport in sight.
>

Ok, I see-- I'll just plan to cancel IFR, thanks!

John